I've added it to the watchlist, thanks for the rec.
I have always thought that we should separate the artist from his art. I think the same thing about business leaders and political leaders. The truth is that we are all very ugly people on the inside, with some very vulgar thoughts and instincts. We usually don't act upon them, but sometimes we slip. We like to think that we are all selfless and loving and altruistic, but if you look at most of our actions, they are very egocentric. I think most of us just don't have the power or access to act out on our whims.
The fact that an artist can deal with all the agony of being a human and still create something beautiful is a heroic achievement. I think only once you have actually lived through some real shit and then also created something meaningful and celebrated can you afford to criticize someone else who made the wrong decision in a similar circumstance.
That's very well-rounded and realistic picture of the topic, Grant. I mostly agree with it, and would only add that there are levels or tonalities. Yes, we all have good and bad sides but there are some worse and better actions in there, and you sometimes have to know when a certain line is crossed, both for yourself and others. And I think the movie does a great job at pointing out those nuances and not giving out an opinion.
But yeah, as I said, I pretty much agree with everything you said. Also your last sentence is amazing and so true, it's congruence in the end and we shouldn't be able to criticize someone about something we don't have first-hand experience on.
Will love to hear your thoughts on the movie once you watch it!
I mean, I could do without Picasso lol The conversation around separating the art from the artist is really around making exceptions for particular artists who become popular or create “masterpieces,” not all artists/art. If it’s a nobody artists who is morally bankrupt, people will happily write them off. So why the exceptions?
If someone makes a "masterpiece," I assume they gave themselves fully to their art, and who they are and what they bring with them informs their art. It would be delusional to reject that reality. That being said, multiple things can be true and acknowledged. Sometimes, maybe even often, shitty people make deeply affecting or brilliant things.
Back to Todd Field, I like when artists disappear like that. It’s probably necessary, especially when your medium is film. They require so much of the people making them. It’s so all-consuming, it almost surprises me that more directors don’t disappear even more frequently for longer periods of time. But I wonder, if money wasn't an issue, if that would be the case. Even doing a little newsletter, I’m always like, ok is it time to go away for a while? 😂 Maybe I'll disappear for 16 years too.
Good point, the bigger/more famous they are, the more we’re willing to do concessions. And works the other way around too: if they’re not that famous they also don’t get that scrutinized / judged. Though I can think of a few examples were there wasn’t an exception, I’ll concede we as a society are more permissive and hypocritical in some cases. And I think it’s a process, and what we should train is to be more critical as a society, to be able to discern witch hunts from real offenders, not put everyone in the same bucket based on subjective criteria.
And yes, I think everyone would agree the artist’s life and context influences its art, but the question about it being necessary to understand its art is not closed, and I think it’s important to be able to do both separately. As for “shitty people make deeply affecting or brilliant things”, completely agree haha would we be better off without them?
I understand you could do without Picasso 😂 I’ve come to appreciate some of his art, but couldn’t argue in favor of him being among the best of history. But there we’d also get in branding / subjectivity of art.
Agreed on disappearing being necessary to produce quality, completely on that camp and yes, especially in cinema. Just look at Woody Allen (another complicated figure) and his once-a-year mediocre films (at least 9 out of 10).
And I support you disappearing for 16 years if you emerge with something like Tár! ;)
Appreciate you coming and weighing in with your valuable viewpoint my friend!
This is a great piece on a great theme. And you make the reader curious to explore the movie but also to give a hard look at the idea of separating the artist from the art. Very good essay, Oscar. I really enjoyed it.
Tár! That’s movie left me paralyzed in a good way. I don’t know where I fall because I don’t want to accept the idea that you have to have a dark side to create beauty but also I clearly see the beauty. I guess that’s just a sign that I don’t want to recognize the dark side that is very much human ... love the analysis and now I have to rewatch scenes you mentioned to appreciate the camera work more consciously
Right?! It's such an impactful movie. Glad you've seen it and liked it Vicky.
Love the darkness-beauty dichotomy you pose. Agreed there's both of them in everyone, and maybe the process of learning to tame the dark side can yield beauty in itself. Or at least being aware of it when it comes out is valuable in itself.
I've added it to the watchlist, thanks for the rec.
I have always thought that we should separate the artist from his art. I think the same thing about business leaders and political leaders. The truth is that we are all very ugly people on the inside, with some very vulgar thoughts and instincts. We usually don't act upon them, but sometimes we slip. We like to think that we are all selfless and loving and altruistic, but if you look at most of our actions, they are very egocentric. I think most of us just don't have the power or access to act out on our whims.
The fact that an artist can deal with all the agony of being a human and still create something beautiful is a heroic achievement. I think only once you have actually lived through some real shit and then also created something meaningful and celebrated can you afford to criticize someone else who made the wrong decision in a similar circumstance.
That's very well-rounded and realistic picture of the topic, Grant. I mostly agree with it, and would only add that there are levels or tonalities. Yes, we all have good and bad sides but there are some worse and better actions in there, and you sometimes have to know when a certain line is crossed, both for yourself and others. And I think the movie does a great job at pointing out those nuances and not giving out an opinion.
But yeah, as I said, I pretty much agree with everything you said. Also your last sentence is amazing and so true, it's congruence in the end and we shouldn't be able to criticize someone about something we don't have first-hand experience on.
Will love to hear your thoughts on the movie once you watch it!
I mean, I could do without Picasso lol The conversation around separating the art from the artist is really around making exceptions for particular artists who become popular or create “masterpieces,” not all artists/art. If it’s a nobody artists who is morally bankrupt, people will happily write them off. So why the exceptions?
If someone makes a "masterpiece," I assume they gave themselves fully to their art, and who they are and what they bring with them informs their art. It would be delusional to reject that reality. That being said, multiple things can be true and acknowledged. Sometimes, maybe even often, shitty people make deeply affecting or brilliant things.
Back to Todd Field, I like when artists disappear like that. It’s probably necessary, especially when your medium is film. They require so much of the people making them. It’s so all-consuming, it almost surprises me that more directors don’t disappear even more frequently for longer periods of time. But I wonder, if money wasn't an issue, if that would be the case. Even doing a little newsletter, I’m always like, ok is it time to go away for a while? 😂 Maybe I'll disappear for 16 years too.
Good point, the bigger/more famous they are, the more we’re willing to do concessions. And works the other way around too: if they’re not that famous they also don’t get that scrutinized / judged. Though I can think of a few examples were there wasn’t an exception, I’ll concede we as a society are more permissive and hypocritical in some cases. And I think it’s a process, and what we should train is to be more critical as a society, to be able to discern witch hunts from real offenders, not put everyone in the same bucket based on subjective criteria.
And yes, I think everyone would agree the artist’s life and context influences its art, but the question about it being necessary to understand its art is not closed, and I think it’s important to be able to do both separately. As for “shitty people make deeply affecting or brilliant things”, completely agree haha would we be better off without them?
I understand you could do without Picasso 😂 I’ve come to appreciate some of his art, but couldn’t argue in favor of him being among the best of history. But there we’d also get in branding / subjectivity of art.
Agreed on disappearing being necessary to produce quality, completely on that camp and yes, especially in cinema. Just look at Woody Allen (another complicated figure) and his once-a-year mediocre films (at least 9 out of 10).
And I support you disappearing for 16 years if you emerge with something like Tár! ;)
Appreciate you coming and weighing in with your valuable viewpoint my friend!
This is a great piece on a great theme. And you make the reader curious to explore the movie but also to give a hard look at the idea of separating the artist from the art. Very good essay, Oscar. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you for your praise and your help Silvio! I'm glad you liked it and enjoyed it :)
Tár! That’s movie left me paralyzed in a good way. I don’t know where I fall because I don’t want to accept the idea that you have to have a dark side to create beauty but also I clearly see the beauty. I guess that’s just a sign that I don’t want to recognize the dark side that is very much human ... love the analysis and now I have to rewatch scenes you mentioned to appreciate the camera work more consciously
Right?! It's such an impactful movie. Glad you've seen it and liked it Vicky.
Love the darkness-beauty dichotomy you pose. Agreed there's both of them in everyone, and maybe the process of learning to tame the dark side can yield beauty in itself. Or at least being aware of it when it comes out is valuable in itself.
Thank you for stopping by!